Lab Rat Chat

News Bite - February 2024

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Hold onto your lab coats as we delve into the astonishing medic skills of the Matabelle ants and their natural antibiotics, a discovery with implications that could ripple through human healthcare. We'll chuckle together at AI's attempts at artistic genius and its more practical uses in the operating room, and then ponder the ethical maze surrounding a pioneering pig liver medical procedure. 

Allergies got you sniffling? We've got the scoop on how nanoparticles might be the game-changer we've been sneezing for, thanks to groundbreaking research from Northwestern University. While we're at it, let's not forget about the superhero in the room: breast milk. Discover how this liquid gold is rewriting the rulebook on infant immunity. Prepare to be both enlightened and entertained as we merge cutting-edge science with hearty humor throughout our latest episode.

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Speaker 1

This podcast is supported by Americans for Medical Progress and was founded and created through the Michael D Hare Fellowship, awarded annually to support projects that inform and educate the public about the critical role of animal research in furthering medical progress. The Fellowship honors the late Dr Michael Hare, a renowned board-certified laboratory animal veterinarian who dedicated his career to scientific and medical advancements and who was deeply committed to animal welfare and advocacy. Hey, everyone, welcome into the February edition of the Labrat Chat NewsBite episodes. I know it's been a while. It's been what, danielle, since did we do it December 1? I think it's been November.

Speaker 2

I don't think so.

Speaker 1

So December, january, two months off.

Speaker 2

A little holiday break. I think in November we promised we were going to do better and then we didn't.

Speaker 1

So sorry, just promises get broken kids.

Speaker 2

But they shouldn't.

Speaker 1

My daughter's trying to make me promise everything and I refuse. I don't promise them anything ever that I'm going to do, because you never know.

Speaker 2

Yeah.

Speaker 1

And they have a memory. I don't want them to grow up and remember.

Speaker 2

The dad broke a promise.

Speaker 1

Right. So anyways, we'll just call it a little hiatus, a little holiday break. You know tough around the holidays and all that. Here we are, february, february 8th today, full swing Mardi Gras season down here in Louisiana.

Speaker 2

Oh, very nice.

Speaker 1

So I have to get you down here One of these years. When is Mardi?

Speaker 2

Gras Like is it a day or a week?

Speaker 1

So I don't know the complete, like I don't know how they figure out what day it changes every year and so this like next Tuesday is Mardi Gras day the 13th.

Speaker 2

Okay.

Speaker 1

Okay, but sometimes it's like in March, and so I don't know exactly how it's all figured out. But I guess maybe next time I'll do some research on it for you guys. Claire knows, but she's not here.

Speaker 2

We should have Claire come on as a guest at some point, then Right, we'll interview you on the history of Mardi Gras. That's kind of fun. We totally should Next time Tell Claire get ready.

Speaker 1

Okay, and there's a ton of dog parades, so animal related during Mardi Gras, so those are cool, okay. So last week, as a company like, we're usually open Saturdays but half day, so we closed and there's a morning Mardi Gras parade out here in the city. That was the first parade I've ever been in. I've took the whole family out through stuff. It was like a huge turnout. You wouldn't think too many people. There's thousands of people there to watch people march with dogs and you throw dog treats and dogs going wild everywhere running around eating treats. It's a little chaotic, so but it was fun. It was fun.

Speaker 1

But yeah, mardi Gras, mardi Gras my new favorite holiday Now that we live out here, but it goes on for weeks, like parades start in January and they'll have parades every weekend up until, like the week leading up to Mardi Gras. There's parades every day of the week, like all day, so it's a little crazy. It's a little crazy, it's a little bit more like a day out here where we live but more like in the city yeah. Yeah, so, cool.

Speaker 2

Yeah.

Speaker 1

So but that's other than that we haven't done really anything too exciting, and I do apologize for background barking and noise. It's unavoidable today, the whole family's home, I think. In the four years which is unbelievable that we've been doing this podcast, I don't think I've ever recorded just like in the house with my whole family home.

Speaker 2

Yeah, so it'll be an adventure. Yeah, and this is the first time I don't know if my whole family's home, I think one of them would go get that dog and make him be quiet, because they know what we're doing. You'd think, but they're just laughing at you.

Speaker 1

Right, no, I'm sure they're encouraging it.

Speaker 2

So, then, my update is this is the first time in four years of recording that I've recorded from my house alone, without people here, because my life updates and why I've been unable to podcast record. I am sort of switching from like well, I am switching. I no longer work full time, I now work part time from my house.

Speaker 1

Congratulations.

Speaker 2

And then in May, when my kids get out for summer break, I will no longer be working. So this is sort of my like slow outro to work and I'm kind of helping, like transition information and train new people and all that jazz you know, on a part time basis.

Speaker 1

Is there a new person yet?

Speaker 2

There's a new interim director person but they posted my job. But obviously it's too soon and you know the state takes forever to hire people.

Speaker 1

Yeah, they'll be hired by 2025 maybe.

Speaker 2

But you know, I'm like trying to like leave good notes and paper trail and all that good jazz. So like working from home is like life changing, like I'm just wearing an oversized hoodie today and it's magical.

Speaker 1

That is pretty nice, huh.

Speaker 2

Like I don't have to put on fancy shirts anymore, like it's just, it's nice. And the other really super fun thing is because I have a little extra time on my hands while the kids are at school, I am getting back into horse riding which is super fun.

Speaker 1

It's already started.

Speaker 2

I did. Oh, I've met with a trainer yesterday and I have a lesson scheduled for next Monday, but there's rain in the forecast and this barn doesn't have an indoor ring, they just have an outdoor one. So I'm like fingers crossed, like don't you dare rain on my parade, quite literally.

Speaker 1

I say go out riding on the rain. You know what would have cost her to you.

Speaker 2

Well, you gotta watch the footing and the mud and I don't know, we'll see. But I'm like super pumped and I haven't like ridden like regularly in 16 years. Like I grew up riding I was a pretty good rider, but like I pulled all my stuff down from like storage, Like my helmet was like dry rotted.

Speaker 1

I'm like okay getting a new helmet. You still had all that stuff.

Speaker 2

I hoarded it because it's like someday I'm getting back into horse, it's like I'm doing it. And then I went to put, like my chaps on and I was like, oh, my legs have changed in size, like those don't fit anymore. And then, like, when I met with the trainer yesterday I kind of joked. I'm like I don't even know what the fashion is. You know, I used to have full chaps and nobody even sells full chaps. She goes oh yeah, that's so like that was 2000s, like now it's like you know the silicone, grippy riding pants with half chaps. And I was like, oh, my God, my fashion is so 2000s. Like what just?

Speaker 1

happened. Right, you need to up your horse fashion.

Speaker 2

Yeah, but at the same time I freaking loved riding in full chaps and I'm not going to like go do showings. Like maybe I don't care and maybe I just find a way to get new chaps, I don't know.

Speaker 1

She's not going to follow the trends. You're going to do what you want to do.

Speaker 2

I've never been one. Yeah, I've never been one for trends, but what I will say is, if I have horse riding listeners out there, please send me links to your favorite riding pants, your favorite riding gloves, because I got to get a new pair of gloves. I don't know what's cool and what's in, and so like, spam the like lab rat, chat, social medias with your suggestions, because I also pulled my old paddock boots out. Have like a pair of Ariott paddock boots from the early 2000s, probably like the 1900s, dare I say. Yeah, so outdated, yeah, but like they still fit and they're fine. I shined them up, but they're paddock boots. So, like I don't know, is Ariott still like the cool brand? Like I need to know these things. The horse people spam me with your best items so I can start picking and choosing, because I'm about to get like back into it.

Speaker 1

So he sound pretty pumped.

Speaker 2

I'm so pumped, I'm so pumped. Oh my gosh.

Speaker 1

You didn't get your kids into it.

Speaker 2

Yeah, oh, griffin. Griffin already is like like, yeah, I want to ride a horse and I'm like, well, like I don't maybe this. This barn is like a smaller barn and they don't really have show horses. The trainer has horses that are in training and the owners allow her to use them for lessons. So they're not really horses that you'd want to go like put your kid on. Yet but like I think as the sparring grows it might turn into more of that. But it's like new construction, it's a beautiful place, it's just kind of like up and coming, so to speak. So Nice.

Speaker 2

Very excited and Morgan also wants to ride horses, but she tells me very specifically that it has to be a tiny pony. She doesn't want to ride a horse, it's a tiny pony. She wants me to get her a tiny helmet because her head is smaller than mine. She's very specific things. She's like no, I want a tiny helmet and a tiny horse, a pony, a unicorn?

Speaker 2

Yeah, probably, well, she doesn't really know, I haven't. I haven't really done the whole unicorn thing because I'm just so into horses that it's like, no, you're just going to have horse imagery and not unicorns and Pegasuses, pegasi, pegasuses.

Speaker 1

Yeah, I don't know. I don't know how that. I don't know I don't know the plural of that one.

Speaker 2

Yeah, yeah, it's more, more, just horse, straight horse stuff around.

Speaker 1

Yeah, I think. I think at least one of my kids believes unicorns are real, so it's okay.

Speaker 2

I mean, do we know for sure that they're not?

Speaker 1

Correct.

Speaker 2

I thought Norwhals were fake for a while, until I realized that they are real and that's a unicorn of the sea.

Speaker 1

So yeah, those are kind of nuts. They actually didn't believe me. They didn't believe me that those were real creatures.

Speaker 2

Yeah, like those actually are real. So who's to say that there's not an actual unicorn out there?

Speaker 1

I don't think they're extinct though. Is that right? I mean, I don't know, I don't know.

Speaker 2

I feel like everything is.

Speaker 1

Just want to be nice to have like a producer that's like sitting in listening to us and they could look these things up for us and like beam into our ears factual information and let us know. But we don't have that so no. We'll just look it up later. We're still looking at us now that they're indeed like there's. Maybe they're like overwhelming populations somewhere. Let me step up out of I don't even know where they live. Like are they live like in the Arctic.

Speaker 2

I think they're cold weather. I think they look for the like I see stuff. I mean I'm pretty sure they're in the baby beluga book that that is all like Arctic, and I'm basing that you know that's has to be a fact because it's a children's book.

Speaker 1

So right, there would be nothing wrong.

Speaker 2

Yeah.

Speaker 1

Okay.

Speaker 2

All right Science Should we talk about?

Speaker 1

science. We should All right. So my two articles I'm going to talk about are the first one's going to be about ants. And actually, you know it's one of them. It's not going to be the first one, but it's going to be about ants and how they can. They can treat each other's wounds and how we might be able to use that information for ourselves one day. And then the other one is about mice and hopefully providing some insight into better allergy treatments for humans.

Speaker 2

Okay, I have like I think this is going to be like the best article of our episode.

Speaker 1

You have to stay in Excel, huh Okay.

Speaker 2

Yeah, no, this is big. I'm actually surprised you didn't find this article Pig liver transplants to humans potentially potentially Because we've talked about hearts and maybe kidneys, but now we're looking at livers. And then I also found a study on with mice involving. Well, like it's about breast milk and everyone knows that breast milk is beneficial, blah, blah blah. But it's like a new mechanism in breast milk that they hadn't really figured out yet. So it's just kind of another cool piece of that. You know mythical science if you believe in that. So Super.

Speaker 1

All right, you want me to go first?

Speaker 2

Sure, I kind of want to know about the ants. I know you said it might not be the first one, but I kind of want to know.

Speaker 1

I mean, I can always start with the ants.

Speaker 2

Okay, do it.

Speaker 1

Actually All right, starting off with the ant story. So these ants I don't know how to say this type of ant Matabelle M-A-T-A-B-E-L-E.

Speaker 2

Matabelle Okay, ants Okay.

Speaker 1

And there's a dog voraciously, viciously, trying to break in to this playroom to get to me where I'm at.

Speaker 2

Nice, I'm crying now, yeah.

Ants Treat Wounds With Antibiotics

Speaker 1

Yeah, the dog's not crying, that's probably a kid. They're in the sub-Saharan Africa and so these Matabelle ants, metabelle ants I don't know how you say it, I'm going to keep saying it wrong they can actually. They find out, they can identify and then treat infected wounds with antibiotics that they actually produce themselves after they get into these battles. So, like I said, they live in the sub-Saharan Africa, they live in these huge colonies and they only eat termites. And so there's tons of termites out there, you've seen, like those giant termite mounds and stuff. So that's the only thing they eat. So they have to move their big colonies to go find these termite mounds and then they go and attack. So as they start approaching the termite troops also, like you know, they try to defend their mouth. So then it's like this huge war of these ants versus termites out there fighting each other.

Speaker 1

Oh God, the ants typically win, it sounds like, but afterwards many of the ants this is what it says many of the ants lose legs or wings or other parts of their body in the battle, and they will, I guess, after they eat the termites and stuff, then they will take their fallen ant buddies back to their nest. So they're to their colony and they actually will start licking the wounds for several minutes and they didn't know why they did it. I mean, obviously you assume that they're trying to heal it. They just always said that they thought they're like removing dirt to try to clean it. But I guess they have these little glands on their backs, these meta-pleural glands they're called and that secretes a substance which contains more than 50 different antimicrobial and wound healing properties.

Speaker 1

So they actually went in and they took some of these ants and they extracted these glands and looked at the chemical makeup and saw that's made up of all these things. So as they're licking their wounds, they're taking the secretions from this gland and off of their bodies and applying it to the ants and it helps them heal. And they found that they actually took. The researchers took some of the injured ants away from the colony so that they couldn't be treated by their fellow ant mates, and 90% of those ants died within 36 hours, whereas the ones that they just left with the colony only 22% of those ones died. So clearly the ants that's like mind boggling.

Speaker 1

Yeah, they have life-saving antibiotics, so as they lick the wounds, they actually are healing them. So I guess we're going to try to figure out more about this chemical makeup of the gland and maybe we could possibly use it in treating all these antibiotic-resistant wounds that we have, because wound healing is a big issue and all that other stuff out there. So just one more area to look into and one more tool maybe to help battle some of the antibiotic resistance that's going on out there and we use AI to make a photo of a field of ants with swords and shields rolling up on a termite mound and the termites have tanks and helmets on and they're like get back inside.

Speaker 2

Can we make that photo happen?

Speaker 1

I mean, I don't know how to do that, but if somebody out there knows how, that would be great.

Speaker 2

Yeah, because that's all I was picturing.

Speaker 1

I know you can make awesome AI art now. But I know with chat, gpt or whatever number it's on now, I think you have to pay to get artwork. The free stuff just gives you the text.

Speaker 2

Did you see the post I put on our Instagram and Facebook with the? Ai conversion of my chickens?

Speaker 1

Yes, Because I laughed out loud to myself yeah, how does you? Is that an app that you use to do that?

Speaker 2

It's an app yeah, I don't remember what it's called Wonder maybe but you take a picture of your dog and you upload it and it turns your dog into a cute little Pixar-looking dog. I think it can only handle one animal or two people and clearly can't handle a group of feathery things. Because I was just out dropping some sunflower seeds for my birds, I took a cute picture and I was like ooh, let's see what AI does with this one and what it gave me.

Speaker 1

That's hilarious If you're listening and you haven't seen it yet the bears are pretty hilarious, the bears.

Speaker 2

There's a girl out there riding the back of a chicken. Go look at our social media to see the series of photos of the original chicken photo. And then there was one where they turned into red-nosed pigs and one of them had a necklace on. I don't understand that.

Speaker 1

And then I mean, they're cool photos, they're hilarious, which is how they get them.

Speaker 2

And then there's one with the bears who are shocked to see a small girl in the. It makes no sense. So I love AI. I hate AI because it confuses me, but I also love it.

Speaker 1

It's really nice for work, sometimes Like if I do a surgery I'll go into the AI and just say write a surgical report for the surgery, and it is textbook.

Speaker 2

Really.

Speaker 1

Yeah.

Speaker 2

Nice.

Speaker 1

I mean, I think it just scours the literature and textbooks out there and it writes exactly. I mean, obviously you have to go in and edit things. Yeah, that's how I got a lot of my templates originally, because I just had to do that and then I went and changed and edited things to how they should be. But it's a little crazy. Nice. What the thing is that they can save so much time but still needs some oversight. You got to review it, but anyways, yeah, all right.

Speaker 2

Well, I want to. Yeah, so that's about ants. Yeah, that was much cooler than I thought it was going to be.

Speaker 1

Good.

Speaker 2

So I'm going to just start big with my awesome article and people will probably get bored after this because now we will have given our two best articles. But first ever pig liver, not a transplant. So this started out there was, unfortunately, a patient that was brain dead. They knew that they were going to be taking the patient off life support and University of Pennsylvania was able to do this experiment before that happened and they kind of they used the box that they hold livers in before a transplant. So it's like a environmental chamber that keeps the liver happy between patients. If you had a human liver to a human liver. So they had this genetically modified pig liver in there and they have a cool picture of it with all the tubes and things hooked up to it. And they hooked it up to the patient and were able to keep the pig liver alive. The pig liver successfully filtered blood and everything else that livers do back to the patient for 72 hours. The article doesn't say if maybe 72 hours was just the max that the hospital allowed. It doesn't say if it started to fail after 72 hours. I'm thinking it might have just been a 72 hour endpoint to the experiment and the pig liver I think it came from a pig with 69 modifications.

Speaker 2

I read a different article last night than the one I found this morning and I think the one I found last night mentioned it was 69 genetic modifications. But the implications of this would be, you know, there's like 10,000 people on the liver transplant list and you've got people in acute liver failure. And if you can have even a temporary pig liver that can filter and do the job of a liver for 72 hours or longer, or maybe you, you know, get a new liver every week or something from a different pig but if you can keep those people alive longer to get them on a transplant plant list or allow their liver to heal in I don't know how long it takes livers to heal, but, like, maybe there's a way to kind of give your own liver arrest, use one of these livers and, you know, help people stay alive longer. So this is super exciting. Another kind of article about, you know, the future of genetically modified pig organ transplants.

Speaker 1

It seems like the world of pig organ transplant plants is just growing rapidly.

Speaker 2

It's crazy. Yeah, it seems the most feasible because it's not like a permanent. Like gosh, you know, if you have a heart transplant, like you got one shot with that thing, like you know what I mean. It's in your body, you had this surgery, but this is like it's external to your body, it's just kind of operating as a liver, because they've never made a machine Like, yeah, for kidneys they have a dialysis machine, but they don't have like a liver dialysis machine. So this could be a huge benefit. And again, it's outside your body. So if, like, the pig liver fails, you know you can maybe get another one, or like it just seems like you have a more wiggle room for things that could go wrong.

Speaker 1

Right, or maybe you could switch back to your own liver for a little bit, for a little bit Like yeah, it's not like you know, if you have a pig heart in your chest and it gives way, then you're done. So yeah, and depending on what's going on, like you said, could possibly regenerate itself and heal itself a little bit in the meantime. And yeah. And who knows, maybe eventually go back to just your own liver after a certain amount of time.

Nanoparticles for Allergy Treatment

Speaker 2

So super cool. I was pretty pumped when I found this one, pretty pumped like a liver pump, sorry.

Speaker 1

That's lame.

Speaker 2

I know I was joking, that was good. Edit that out. No, just kidding.

Speaker 1

We don't edit anything out.

Speaker 2

I know you get what we say yeah.

Speaker 1

So I guess now it's into two. Exciting articles are out the way. If you want to go ahead and just turn the episode off, feel free. We got two more though, all right, okay. So my next one's about a mouse study that hints at a new way to counter allergies. So I always liked the way that, like journalists and these writers start articles so I could always kind of like read the beginning, like they're so creative, but they're not really. But it just starts with allergic to peanuts, to cats, to pollen, and that's how it starts. Nice, okay, like just extra words that we don't need. Like that's not drawn me into the article.

Speaker 2

Let me list some allergens that are common.

Speaker 1

Yeah, have you had your kids allergy tested for anything? Just sidetracked?

Speaker 2

I have not but I do think that Morgan might have, like she has like a tentative asthma diagnosis now because she has had a cough since August and we finally found some like inhaler meds that are working, but I almost feel like it's like a allergen that's. I don't know, we haven't yet, but it might be in our future.

Speaker 1

Yeah, yeah, I've had that for a long time and see, she put on some steroids and it finally went away.

Speaker 2

Yeah. Morgan's had five days of steroids which helped it for five days, but then it came back after the steroids. Yeah.

Speaker 1

Yeah, anyways, only because it's talking about allergic to peanuts, to cats, to pollen. Well, I have allergy tests with any of our kids. They all seem fine. But have you heard of people? Why are cockroaches on the allergy panel for humans? I feel like it, think about it though. Right. People are allergic. I feel like Terminex has to sponsor that in the profile. Yeah, make sure cockroaches are on there.

Speaker 2

No, but if you live in Louisiana, don't you open your door and have I don't know? I remember one time we went down to my father-in-law's. He had a condo down in Florida and we opened the door and they weren't cockroaches, but they were the what's the Florida one, palmetto bugs. Am I making that up? There was four of them.

Speaker 1

Yeah, they look like cockroaches.

Speaker 2

Yeah, they do, and they just ran into the apartment from the door frame because they were just chilling in the door frame. I ran in with my flip-flop and I just took my flip-flop off and I started whacking them and my husband he was my boyfriend at the time. He was looking at me. He was like what just happened? I'm like you got to get these things. And he's like no, I know. He's like I'm impressed. I was like okay.

Speaker 1

But I mean if they're in your house yeah, I mean, they get in. Yeah, but how allergic are you to them and the fact that they're just like even in your house? You're going to have some sort of allergic reaction.

Speaker 2

Well, is it to them or is it to their like urine and poop, like I feel, like that's what would cause the allergic yeah.

Speaker 1

So but that's an exterminator company had definitely sponsored that to be on there. And then when he comes back and then they're like okay, well, now you got to get an exterminator out there and make sure there's no pesticides or make sure there's no cockroaches. It's just re-diculose allergy. Sorry, if you have it.

Speaker 2

Yeah right, it's not first, it's insulted. It's not personal, it's insulted all of our listeners.

Speaker 1

But anyways, all right, so anyways. So there's no. So when you have allergies you have these mast cells. That when, in response to an allergen, the mast cells dump all of those histamines into the body and then that those histamines incite that a massive inflammatory response where you get itchy eyes or sneezing or even anaphylactic shock possibly, and so there's, you know, like, in response to anaphylactic, you get like your EpiPens and in response to the itchy eyes and runny noses, you got pitidary on all that stuff. So everything that we have is kind of like a way to treat the symptoms.

Speaker 1

But these people out of I'll find it in a minute, doesn't actually say out of Northwestern University, they're using nanoparticles to actually go in and deactivate the mast cells and so mast cells are important for other processes in the body, like blood flow and fighting off parasites and things like that. So we can't just shut them all down. But I guess these nanoparticles have a way to disable specific, just allergy related mast cells through a different like, through a whole different like two step process. So they coat the nanoparticles with an antibody and then they carry like an allergens specific to that person's allergy, so like peanuts or something. So to treat peanut allergy. It would contain a peanut protein and then the antibodies on the nanoparticle engage with the receptors, like on the mast cells, and they inhibit that specific mast cells response to the allergy and then those. So rather than shutting down all the mast cells in the body, it becomes very specific.

Speaker 1

The nice thing about this approach is you don't have to actually kill or eliminate those mast cells, and if the nanoparticle were to like attach to the wrong cell type, it just wouldn't like. Nothing would happen, and so it has a good like. There's a wide safety profile to it as well. I'm sure there's some other concerns and other safety issues and all that too, but they showed when they did this in mice. The therapy was so they had mice and obviously they can develop mice models for anything. So they had mice that developed an allergy and then they treated them with these nanoparticles and it was 100% successful in preventing all allergic responses.

Speaker 1

So, none of them developed any of their allergies to the allergy when they exposed it to it.

Speaker 2

Can that work for, like, let's not even translate that. I mean, let's translate it to humans, but can we also translate it to, like, our dogs? Because Nala has allergies? My goodness, she has allergies.

Speaker 1

Yeah, I don't know that would be awesome. Yeah, that would be sweet, huh, I mean all we do, I mean half of, especially down here in Louisiana, like half of my half of my client to bring it in there their pets for allergy related issues out here, and they're just year round, you know.

Speaker 2

Yeah.

Speaker 1

So, then, treating the symptoms would be nice to just be able to give them something that can prevent it all together.

Speaker 2

Yeah, that's awesome. Nala's allergic to dust mites, storage mites and chicken, so that's.

Speaker 1

Chicken huh yeah.

Speaker 2

Chickens are common?

Speaker 1

Yeah, chicken and beef are common, but did you say storage mites?

Speaker 2

Yeah, Dust mites, storage mites, dust mites and storage mites what's the?

Speaker 1

difference between a dust mite and a storage mite.

Speaker 2

I don't know if there's a big difference, because they were on the same line. They just had a slash between them, so maybe they're just like called one of these different. I don't know. But I mean, you can't escape dust mites and storage mites. What the vet explained to us, this was gosh 10 years ago. Storage mites are in dry kibble, because dry kibble is stored, even if it's vacuum packed, even if it's yeah, you can't avoid it.

Speaker 2

You can't avoid it, which is why we originally switched her to raw food. Both of our dogs are on raw food just because it's easier now. But as soon as we switched, her skin cleared up, and it's just because the dust mites in the dry kibble were no longer a problem.

Speaker 1

So storage mites, yeah, I don't know.

Speaker 2

Storage mites, dust mites. That's what the printout said of her allergy testing.

Speaker 1

Awesome.

Speaker 2

Yeah.

Speaker 1

Yeah, I know I actually use your dogs a lot at work. It's like an example for some people that just need you know cause we talk about food trials and eliminating like a lot of times it's food allergies and stuff or it could be like you said dust mites and things like that. You know we're always telling vet school so much how awful raw diets are, but I'm like, listen, I've been friends been doing it for like 10 years and we've never had a problem.

Speaker 2

I remember when you started vet school I like threatened your life and I'm like don't you become a brainwashed vet into thinking that this is a bad thing. It's just that people do it bad and then it's bad. But if you do it right.

Speaker 1

It's amazing, yeah, yeah, and vet schools are so adamantly opposed to it. I did have our nutritionist. She was pretty good. She was pretty open about it, but you know the giant the nutritionist average in your tech. Yeah.

Speaker 2

Well, that's who my vet. My vet was like oh, there's a really good nutritionist out at VT that can help you balance your diet, and I'm like it's already balanced, cause we've been doing this for a while?

Speaker 1

Yeah, cause I talked to her about it but after one of our classes and she was I mean obviously like took it as like a last resort kind of thing. But she's like you gotta do it, you gotta do it and just do it right.

Speaker 2

Yeah, no, don't get me wrong. There's nothing more convenient than like kibble, especially when you have kids, because, like for us, like we need to make sure that the kids don't go touching the raw meat that's in the garage where we feed the dogs, like it's a whole process to make sure we're handling the food safely, and blah, blah, blah.

Speaker 1

But like and you're not just giving them like raw ground meat, like you give them everything.

Speaker 2

Oh yeah, it's a whole whole fiesta. We could probably have a whole episode on this. Yeah.

Speaker 1

And so I'm always supportive of it. If anybody ever wants to do it, Just try to give them the information to make sure they do it right.

Speaker 2

Yeah, I mean like you said, though for us it was kind of a last effort because we did try all the different kibbles. We tried steroids and I know that they say dogs don't get roid rage, but my goodness, nala had roid rage on this.

Speaker 1

Yes, they do.

Speaker 2

And we were like that's like, she's a puppy, we're not dealing with roid rage for the rest of her life. So as soon as we switched it, it worked its way out, so that was good.

Speaker 1

Yeah, I mean they get. They have a whole host of side effects, you know, you get liver issues, they get fat pudgy they drink a lot, they pee all the time. They pee all over your house, you know so, but yeah, we could spend a whole day talking about it. All right, the dog has officially broken into the playroom.

Speaker 2

Okay, Now that the door is open.

Speaker 1

the kids are gonna start flooding in, All right, well, I'll finish up.

New Protective Benefits of Breast Milk

Speaker 2

I'll finish up my last article quick. Okay, so out of Johns Hopkins they did a study on new protective benefits of breast milk. Obviously this is mouse breast milk. But what they did and I they don't ever go into the mech, the mechanisms of how they did it but they had mice that they could like turn off the gene that makes these complement proteins. So they compared that group with mice that were just normal doing their thing, and the mice, the mouse pups that had the mom who had the complement proteins turned off. They were more susceptible to bacterial infections in their gut in early life, whereas the I'm gonna use quotes the normal breastfeeding mom, her pups were kind of immune to this and they found that it's actually not related to so complement proteins. I'm jumping all over the place with this because I'm trying to rush because you said your kids are gonna come in, sorry.

Speaker 1

Take your sweet time yeah.

Speaker 2

So everyone, all the science, knew that complement proteins existed in breast milk, but they thought they worked in conjunction with antibodies. But this study kind of showed that they work independent of antibodies and do their own thing and they also, like your blood, has complement proteins as well for just fighting other infections in your body. But this is a specific complement protein in breast milk that works on its own, doesn't need any of the other help out there to kind of offer protection for the mouse pups or, hopefully, human pup I almost said human pup, human baby, human pups yeah, human pups, the gut microbiome and the gut flora. So it's just an interesting new understanding of how breast milk works because, like I said, it's sort of a mythical thing that everyone knows is air quotes good for you, but there's just so many different ways it works and how it works and I'm just always interested in reading about that sort of thing.

Speaker 1

So yeah, it's always nice. It's always nice to know I know we had a freezer for a while there. I mean I was not a little kid.

Speaker 2

Yeah.

Speaker 1

Like well, I guess we're prepared for Armageddon. Just in case you know, I know.

Speaker 2

And this is gross, sorry everyone, but like, yeah to say like we had a freezer full too and I like mason jars of it and I was like why am I hoarding all of this, like I don't know?

Speaker 1

Hey, you never know.

Speaker 2

I think we can get rid of it now.

Speaker 1

Yeah, I mean it's. It does so many. There's so many like healing properties in it, Like I'm out of it, Like Claire's mom would always tell her like use it on, like rashes and diaper rash and all that stuff too, and it would work magically. Yep, you have to like heal everything.

Speaker 2

So, yeah, I was intrigued to see this headline, just cause it's a an interest of mine and I was curious what they had found out.

Speaker 1

So yeah Well, if PETA got their way, we would stop using cow milk for ice cream and we would start using human breast milk to make ice cream.

Speaker 2

You should have seen the eye roll when you said PETA, we would stop torturing those cows for their milk.

Speaker 2

Well, so I was like I was the other day. I was walking in from cleaning out my chicken coop and I was thinking about like oh, our garden for the spring and like what do we want to plant and everything. And I kind of was like, okay, so like millions of years ago, like who was the first person that tried cow milk? And that was where I went in while I was wandering through my backyard, like who realized, hey, maybe I can have milk from another animal, let me go get that wild cow out there and see if it'll. Let me. Like how did that start? Cause obviously they didn't just have domesticated dairy cows millions of years ago, not millions, what are we talking? Tens of thousands of years ago.

Speaker 2

When did people?

Speaker 1

start drinking milk, maybe billions, you know?

Speaker 2

Yeah.

Speaker 1

All the I mean, there could have been advanced human civilization long before we, long before us, for all we know.

Speaker 2

Did people like domesticate cows for meat and then they're like, hey, maybe we can also and like find a nice cow and like try, like, how did that evolve? How did humans start drinking cow milk?

Speaker 1

I don't know.

Speaker 2

And you know.

Speaker 1

you'll know who I'm talking about Butter and cheese and everything, and maybe it's just like well yeah let's drink some of this. You'll know who.

Speaker 2

I'm talking about, but you know that we used to have the co-worker who said camel milk was the best.

Speaker 1

So yeah, there is some research out there that camel milk is pretty great. So we're actually and I guess donkey milk is the most similar to humans. Why anybody would ever want to drink donkey milk, I don't know.

Speaker 2

But why is that any different from drinking cow milk?

Speaker 1

I mean you're right, but I love milk. Don't get me wrong, I don't drink, I would probably try. I've never tried camel milk, but why not? You know, I mean if we're, but why? Not, you know. I mean, if we're.

Speaker 2

If we're drinking cow milk, you might as well throw in a donkey and a camel too.

Speaker 1

Yeah, but people that are so adamant about we shouldn't be drinking cow's milk. It just drives me. I love nuts. They're like we're the only species that drinks milk from another animal, but we're also the only species. That drives cars and yes, I've talked about this before, so.

Speaker 2

Develops science, research, and then yep, they still want to eat ice cream and butter and cheese.

Speaker 1

I'm like, well, it's all coming from, there's dairy and all of it.

Speaker 2

No, they make almond milk and coconut milk ice cream now.

Speaker 1

Yeah Well, your almond milk is killing the environment, okay.

Speaker 2

Yep, no, I know about that. I think I talked about that one time right With the bees. The almond industry is taking out the bees.

Speaker 1

Yeah, there's no. There's like there's nothing around almonds. There's no bees, birds, insects, animals, nothing.

Speaker 2

Yeah, well, okay.

Speaker 1

So let's just get super weird. No wait, I'm going to add one more thing. It's super weird and personal. Everybody stopped listening by this point. We can say whatever we want.

Speaker 2

This is all relevant because we're talking about allergies, we're talking about breastfeeding and we're talking about almonds here. So both of my kids I breastfed them. Now we're getting weird but they were allergic to me drinking dairy and having dairy so I had to totally cut dairy out of my diet, have almond milk. That's how I found the dairy-free cheese that actually melted correctly on a pizza and stuff. So it really does come full circle. And then they outgrew it and now they can have dairy. So I mean, maybe there is some genetic thing that says humans shouldn't have other animals dairy, but I don't know. They outgrew it, so it's fine.

Speaker 2

But, that does kind of come full circle with everything we just talked about on this episode.

Speaker 1

Yeah, yeah, I mean I've never had we all were big milk drinkers gallons and gallons a week in this house. We're just. I mean we need to get a cow in the backyard.

Speaker 2

Or a donkey or a camel. Yeah, why don't you?

Speaker 1

Get them all, yeah, but wait until I tie it all together there at the end.

Speaker 2

Yeah, and make people feel a little awkward talking about what I.

Speaker 1

That's how you end an episode, right there, so all right. Well, hopefully we will. I'm not making any promises, but hopefully we'll do our best to be back next month with another news bite and hopefully sounds like maybe some other things on the works, and get some interviews Start rolling again.

Speaker 2

Yeah, Get the momentum going, especially now that I have a little bit more time because I'm kind of doing the part time thing. So hopefully it'll be good.

Speaker 1

Yeah, so put it all on you. If we do an interview episode next month, it's all because of you.

Speaker 2

I wouldn't say next month. It's also because of you. That's probably too fast, but we're going to try.

Speaker 1

Yeah, all right. Well, thanks for listening everybody, and we'll check you out, or we'll. What was I going to say?

Speaker 2

Check you out. Check you out.

Speaker 1

I was going to say check you out, but that's not. Yeah, we'll check in with everybody next month on another episode of the Live Brat Chat. Thanks for listening.